Originally Posted by Zidane Ortef

There you are wrong, the G15 has commands like mouse up and mouse down.

@OP There is another thread bout this same topic somewhere. Anet allows the use of the G15 keyboard as long as your not doing some to exploit the game. I use it for stuff like I binded a Gkey so that I don't have to ; space over and over to pick up drops. and stuff like 600/smite I have it set so I don't have to press each bond manually. More then likely you got a few /reports because you stood in the same spot and did the same action over and over. Next time use you macro carefully and don't use them in town where everyone can see you.

Originally Posted by Zidane Ortef

There you are wrong, the G15 has commands like mouse up and mouse down.

Originally Posted by fgarvin

I stand corrected...maybe.

Specifically, is it Mouse Move or Mouse Click or Scroll Wheel?
Does it move the cursor (not likely), click the left/right mouse button (most likely) or scroll the wheel up/down? If there was actual cursor movement, it was most likely NOT a G-15 macro.

Originally Posted by hallomik

How is Support supposed to tell the difference between automated behavior from a program and automated behavior from a keyboard?

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

If they can't tell the difference they should not be banning.

Originally Posted by Shiing!

The only way Anet have of finding a botter is to:

A - Get it reported to them by another player
B - Happen to have an Anet employee see the botter.

In the case of A, they will probably monitor the user (red flag them as far as I know) for suspicious activity - same keystrokes and such. This is just a guess but seems the most reasonable.

As far as I know, there is no way for them to detect that a program is actually running - the only way they can find you botting is if someone sees you and such.

Unless they have some kinda thing that monitors your PC in the background within GW.exe, but this would be against their privary policy (and technically against the law).

Originally Posted by fusa

The G15 does not have any commands for mouse movement, your post and the op's is bullshit. No idea why someone needs a macro to add a second account to party but if you did, you only need to use it once. There's a thread here on Guru dedicated http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ht=post+macros to macros people made for G15, as well as Anet giving away G15's in a contest. The people posting here that it will get you banned are just trollers trying to scare people, or idiots who can't afford one themselves.

Originally Posted by fusa

Neither the original blue lights G15 or the new orange lights G15 has any mouse movement or mouse button, or scroll wheel commands.

Originally Posted by ArenaNet Support Staff

Yeah. I guess I can also get banned when you guys give me an opportunity to make the most grindiest and boring title easier to max with a double point weekend. I am a title grinder. Look at my account, and you will see that I have maxed all of the non-grindiest titles, and those that are repetitive are left.

Your idea of "beleiving that I could not complete the mission x times" is bs. Assumptions are all these reports are based on, not "concrete evidence" as you guys have been stating before. I am 27 years old. I know the difference between right and wrong. I was not wrong, you guys have no evidence, yet you are banning me assumptions you guys have about players. You guys have just lost a fan, and a customer, of Guild Wars. It is sad because I was dedicated to Guild Wars, and one of your most hardcore fans. Now, it has gone all down the toilet, and my real-life friends that play Guild Wars will know about this situation, as well as the whole Guild Wars Guru community. I thank you for the best 3+ years that I have spent on this game, and I am sorry that it had to end on your assumptions.

Response (GM Cykor) 10/15/2008 03:14 PM
Hello again,

As previously stated, due to the violations committed by this account, it will remain closed. We will not accept appeals in cases such as this because of the depth of the analysis prior to the block.

Section 22 of the Rules of Conduct states:
"You may not use any third-party program (such as a "bot") in order to automate gameplay functions, including playing, chatting, interacting, or gathering gold or items within Guild Wars. You may not assist, relay, or store gold or items for other players who are using these processes."

We do not believe that your character was able to complete a mission x times in 2 days while you were at the keyboard the entire time, using keyboard macros to assist you. We believe we have adequately explained the reasoning behind this account closure and any further correspondence regarding this issue will be closed without response.

Regards,

GM Cykor
The Guild Wars Support Team

Customer (MyRealName GoesHere) 10/14/2008 07:42 PM
Are you even reading what I am typing? Stop with the generic stuff and read! I WAS DOING WHAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE ALLOWED AS PER GAILE GRAY!! I have been using these keyboard macros for 3 months, which is when I bought the keyboard specifically for that reason. Your system is flawed, and is only based on what other users type. As I said, provide me proof that I used a third party program. I would like to know for myself.

Response (GM Wumpus) 10/14/2008 07:26 PM
Hello,

Due to the violations committed by this account, it will remain closed.

Please keep in mind that Guild Wars is a global game with hundreds of thousands of players. This means that standards of behavior must be upheld and we will take all necessary actions to protect the Guild Wars community and to assure that players are abiding by our User Agreement. For your convenience, you can obtain more information about our rules at the address listed below.

- http://www.guildwars.com/support/legal/

Regards,
GM WUMPUS
The Guild Wars Support Team

Customer (MyRealName GoesHere) 10/14/2008 06:16 PM
As I said before, I was NOT using a third party program! I was using what your Community Relations Officer Gaile Gray stated we could use!!! I have a Logitech G15 Keyboard and Mouse, and she stated we could use it!! If this was misinformation, this NEEDS to be relayed to the Guild Wars community on GW Guru. This is unjustified, and as a LOYAL customer of 3 years, with over 6000 hours logged on my account, word will get out in my local community. I would also know, as this relates to the loss of over $250 of my hard earned money, what proof you guys have of me using a third party program.

Response (GM Wumpus) 10/14/2008 03:55 PM
Hello,

Your Guild Wars Account has been closed for using an illegal third party program. We want you to know that we use great care when analyzing accounts prior to termination. We are both diligent and conservative in determining which accounts are using these programs, and we only take action after we are able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that such use has occurred.

For additional information on the User Agreement and Rules of Conduct, please visit the below links:

http://www.guildwars.com/support/leg...sofconduct.php
http://www.guildwars.com/support/leg...-agreement.php

Regards,
GM WUMPUS
The Guild Wars Support Team

Customer (MyRealName GoesHere) 10/13/2008 09:44 PM
Thanks for the quick response! I will be looking forward to the reply.

Response (Ethan) 10/13/2008 07:30 PM
Hello,

Thank you for contacting the Guild Wars Support Team.

I am escalating your ticket to our Guild Wars senior staff members to assist you further. Once they have reviewed your question, one of them will contact you shortly.

Regards,
GM Ethan
The Guild Wars Support Team

Customer (MyRealName GoesHere) 10/13/2008 07:07 PM
I tried to login to my account today and I was banned for botting. Why is this? I was NOT using a bot, as I at my computer doing the commands. I use Guild Wars Guru alot, and I read from Gaile Gray that it was ok to program your keyboard to use macros. That was what I was doing. Please review this case, as it is not justified. I was not using a bot or any other third party programs to execute my hero fast faction farming.

the account in question is <deleted> I do not use that email address any more. I have spent a lot of time and money on this account, and I would not like to have this account banned.

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

I fear this is going to be a long post. I apologize in advance.

We do not authorize the use of any third-party programs within Guild Wars. The OP asks about voice-chat programs, but they operate side-by-side, not within the actual framework of the game programming.

With the release of Guild Wars Prophecies, we did have a partnership with one of the voice-chat programs (SpeakEasy) but again, it was "in addition to" and not "within" Guild Wars. Yes, as commented by Chthon, this is a good observation: "The text if the EULA plainly states that only third party programs that 'influence or advantage your use of [GW]' are forbidden." Ice Queen's statement, "A third party tool is any tool that can't run without GW being active. i.e they have no use if GW is not running at the same time" is quite good, as well. MikesSmikes' Post, No. 79, should be read (twice) by everyone with continuing concerns about how Guild Wars operates. And please read ShiningSquirrel's post, No. 112, for insightful commentary based on experience.

I think most of us--the wise ones, anyway --run a virus protection application or two. We might run a program that detects spyware, such as that added by some online advertising. All of us have operating systems, mouse programs, video card drivers... we each have lots of things on our systems that make it possible to run Guild Wars in the first place! Some run within Guild Wars, some run in addition to Guild Wars. But if they do run within the system--and frankly some must and a few should, in order effectively to be doing their job--we'd not want to recommend that people turn them off to avoid breach of the User Agreement. I mean, please, think about this clearly!

Frankly, I agree with Tranquilis here: People are taking their concerns to a ridiculous extreme. Don't ask for a list, because making a list would be impossible. "You mention XYZ Virus Scanner, but do you mean XYZ Virus Scanner Plus? It's not on your list." So listing by name is impossible. What if we made a generic "Voice chat programs" statement, and someone released one that included a handy-dandy bot program as a side benefit? "Why, it's (primarily) a voice chat program (with a little side goodie for item sales). Because it falls under the Voice Chat category, clearly it has been approved by ArenaNet and NCsoft!" So listing by generic category seems, also, undoable. Therefore, I do not believe we'll be able to offer a list--more info below--but I think it's pretty clear why that is.

Once again--abusing that deceased equine again?--occasionally there are erroneous account terminations. With regrets, yes. Just as there are erroneous blocks on a credit card account or infrequent holds on a bank account. I'd say they all relate to security. I know some of you have taken on these infrequent errors as a cause; after all, posting history catches you griping about them in theads about baked goods and shoe sizes.

But seriously, don't tell us not to block bot users. Don't suggest that we scape the system until it's perfect. Understand, instead, that we will always work to improve the system, but that the system is required to keep the game world and the game economy in good shape. Know that the margin of error is very, very small. Again, all those who follow up are immediately attended to with a review of the data that resulted in the termination. In some cases, the numerics uphold the termination, and the "appeal" is rejected. In others, a personal review, sometimes by more than one individual, for surety, results in reestablishment of the account. I'm not even going to get into "There should be no errors" or the self-righteous pontifications on "If there are any errors, then stop banning." Thinking individuals know that we must continue to terminate accounts of those abusing the game, using parameters of such detail that, again, we have an accuracy rating of nearly 100%. I think a few people are getting a bit carried away with this issue, sort of taking it on as a cause, and as politely as possible, they need to stop. While it grieves me that any member of the community may be blocked in error, I have full confidence that he or she will be reinstated if there indeed was an error. I believe that everyone should embrace the fact that the greater good is being served by the blocks of many hundreds of bot users and item sellers a week.

I have never heard of anyone being banned for the use of a keyboard that has hotkey functionality. I will ask Support for their feedback on that, but seriously, I've never seen that done, and I don't see any such use on the termination parameter checklist.

About volunteers: I worked with volunteers on fansites, and that required a very high level of oversight. (Turnover was high; failure to uphold site policies occurred too, from time to time. And we were not dealing with global laws nor accounts purchased for real-world cash as a developer/publisher must do.) There are a dozen reasons why we would not use volunteers, at least at this point, and certainly with the level of powers outlined in Post #125. You only have to look at gaming history to discover unfortunate issues of small and large scale problems. Consider Posts No. 115, No. 116 (last line made me smile), #120 ("one bad apple" comment -- I've seen it, it was ugly). We provide the services suggested for volunteers, except the warnings, and we feel that warnings are in place with the acceptance of the UA and ToC, both explained in the Conduct Breaches and Outcomes document.

I'm very happy to answer questions or address concerns, but please, no rants or continued repeats of the same issues, already addressed. I think many concerns have been addressed by us, here and elsewhere. And many have also been responded to, admirably, by members of this forum community. I hope that everyone has greater clarity on the matter now.

Originally Posted by moriz

there's also been rumors of the G15 and keyboard macros giving players a competitive edge in gvg:

one story said that a player created a macro that did dropflag->pickupflag->shadowstep in a very short time interval, which bypassed the normal mechanic of shadowstepping, which caused you to drop any held object. this obviously gave him a boost in flagrunning, since he can just teleport through the last leg of the run. i don't know if a game update solved this or not.

Originally Posted by english storm

Please don't start labeling posts as bullshit when you have no idea yourself. They are correct, you are wrong. Not only can you add mouse clicks and scroll wheel commands you can also get the keyboard to click anywhere on the screen using mousemove events and x-y co-ordinates.

To the op who was banned, that's bad luck. You sure you had nothing more funky going on? What exactly did you use the macro for?